 |
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bretto
Omega Dog
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Northern territory
|
 Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 2:23 am Post subject: Knowledge |
  |
|
| Just curious to know how the breeders on this forum learnt about genetics when it comes to breeding . In regards to lines that are compatible, how to produce certain colours, and to breed for betterment of the breed ( bringing out a dogs strenghts and not reproducing their weaknesses or faults) . Did you just learn through trial and error or are there any books you can reccomend i pick up. All information appreciated. |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
jenny
Puppy
Joined: 04 Oct 2008
Posts: 16
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
This is something I am also very interested in. I live in the Netherlands and here we also have a lot of (small) kennels. Just IMO there are several who I believe miss a certain knowledge of the breed. Like for instance yiu can read at their homepage "I saw an Amstaff a year ago I really liked the dog I got one and now I have a litter". To me that is a bit strange. Me and my boyfriend are defenitely no best knowers about AST but we have learnt alot through the years through books, family knowledge and the net and even foreign breeders. So in response to Bretto, what do you think of all those kennels who operate like this. IMO they are not a positive switch for the breed. If everybody understands what I mean.
So I am very interested to the answers to Bretto's question!! |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Amanda Reichelt
Shamans
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 612
Location: Colville, WA (USA)
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 4:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
I attended several genetics classes in college and have read numerous books on the subject (I have always found genetics very interesting and LOVE to study it). A good list of books I have read before would be:
The Genetics Of The Dog (A. Rivinsky & J. Sampson)
The Inheritance of Coat Color in Dogs (Clarenence Cook, Little)
Hereditary Bone and Joint Diseases in the dog (J. Morgan & A. Wind)
The Genetic Connection: A Guide To Health Problems In Purebred Dogs (L. Ackerman)
Genetics for Dog Breeders (R. Robinson)
Control Of Canine Genetic Diseases (G. Padgett)
Breeding Better Dogs (C. Battaglia)
The Natural History of Inbreeding and Outbreeding: Theroretical & Empirical (N. Thornhill)
Genetics: An Introduction for Dog Breeders (J. Isabell)
Genetics of the Dog (M. Willis)
There are a few good sites on the subject of canine genetics which are nice  |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Kelley KS ASTs
Puppy
Joined: 04 Jan 2008
Posts: 46
Location: Portland OR
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 12:50 pm Post subject: Re: Knowledge |
|
|
| Bretto wrote: |
| Just curious to know how the breeders on this forum learnt about genetics when it comes to breeding . In regards to lines that are compatible, how to produce certain colours, and to breed for betterment of the breed ( bringing out a dogs strenghts and not reproducing their weaknesses or faults) . Did you just learn through trial and error or are there any books you can reccomend i pick up. All information appreciated. |
I have read numerous books on animal and human genetics but am also fortunate to have a friend and family member that have PHD in genetics.
As far has strengths and weakness you need to have a understanding of dog structure and do a lot of research on pedigrees. I also, believe you need to have a "eye" for dogs. Then of course there is "mother nature" sometimes you can plan and research all you want but somethings you just can't control!
Also, find a objective mentor(s), someone who has been in the breed for years, meaning 20 or more! |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
k84
Shamans
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 604
Location: Transylvania, EU
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 3:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I have a friend who always spend a lot of money to breed his champion female with world champion or multi-champion dogs. But he never take into consideration the structure of these males just the pedigree and he always get poor quality pups. |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bretto
Omega Dog
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Northern territory
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Kelly i agree 100% mentor would be great but i live in such a remote part of Australia that there is only 2 breeders of Amstaffs up here and both are inexperienced ( 2 litters between them ). As for having an eye how do you really know unless your perception of the standard is proven by winning at shows? The current dogs i have are not on main register so showing is not an option for me at the moment. I want to breed dogs but not until i have a fair degree of knowledge and im buying all the books i can get a hold of but theres alot to learn. I believe one of the most important choices you make as a breeder is your foundation dogs and ive been researching various kennels and lines but when you are fairly new to it as i am it can be a little overwhelming ( information overload  . Interested to know how you guys came about picking your foundation dogs and why you choose the dogs you did. Did you determine what you wanted as in colours Bully moderate type ?? Did you deciede that you only wanted this line or that line ( eg Ruffian , xpertise ) Im sorry if im asking stupid questions if so please excuse my ignorance all advice information is appreciated and thanks Amanda for the list of books ordered 2 allready. |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
X-Pertise
Puppy
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 39
Location: NY, USA
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 7:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I have to say that my involvement in the X-Pert bloodline was purely accidental. I didn't even know what the breed really was when I went to look at the first litter of ASTs I had ever seen. I fell in love with the breed on sight. After looking at some other breeds, I went back and purchased my first AST. Max was a great dog and when he passed away, I started looking for another dog from the X-Pert line. As it turns out, I called Clifford Ormsby and asked him about the Beers. I had been told they had a litter on the ground. In his understated manner, Cliff told me they bred some good pups.
I went to look at the litter and came home with Kaine. He became my foundation dog. It was not my intention to breed when I selected him, but I've always had an eye for a good dog and have always wanted the best. I couldn't have asked for better mentors within the breed than I received in Clifford and Alberta Ormsby and Nan and Ed Beers. I also had mentors outside the breed who took me under their wing and eventually met others in the bloodline like Barbara and Wayne Hambleton. I have been very fortunate in having the mentors who were so gracious as to share their knowledge with me. The rest came with a lot of research, study and hard work. You get what you work for.
There is no written law that states your mentors must be from somewhere nearby. Some of the best mentors in the world are from other states or countries. You just have to learn to recognize them, listen to what they tell you and apply the principles they teach to your breeding choices.
You start with one dog. You evaluate that dog and determine what your breeding goals are and then set about achieving them by selecting the proper mate for that foundation. Select one that will compliment the other by providing strengths where the other has shortcomings. Have a breeding plan before you begin breeding. Look beyond the first generation. Know what direction you want to take. What bloodline are you going to breed and why. Know what dogs and bitches you plan to use and why. Learn about correct structure and apply your learnings to your choices. And above all else, know the true meaning of the standard and breed for correct breed type and temperament. Correct breed type and temperament is not always what you observe in the ring. My mantra is: temperament, health, structure, movement and pedigree are first and foremost in making breeding decisions. |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Bretto
Omega Dog
Joined: 01 Sep 2008
Posts: 115
Location: Northern territory
|
| Posted: Tue Nov 25, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Thankyou so much Peggy really appreciate your advice agree with everything you said. Agree with the fact that mentors dont have to be someone nearby but it would help. Im sure someone will take me under their wing lol but for now im just overloading my brain with books anything i can get my hands on Cheers! |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Meadowbrooks
Alpha Dog
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 1680
Location: va
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: |
|
|
I have people to talk to when I need to. I learn that you waste ALOT of time learning on WHO you can trust and are out for the right reasons to be your mentor. Not saying not to have one but make sure it is the right on for you. But not a must.. Read and watch. Learn structure..
For the genes and so on. Anything you learn is a plus but at the end of the day it happens in the whelping box. You can put all that knowledge with a breeding and how the most mess up breeding ever.lol I seen two awesome dogs produce the opposite of what the breeder thought. I seen a good dog breed to a crap dog and produce AWESOME.. Nature is nature and no matter what, Some dogs just don't click with each other. Most of the great breeding was trail and error. You will hear that some people will do test breeding. WHY? because knowledge isn't everything and it don't always work in the box when it should or you think it should. IMO
Last edited by Meadowbrooks on Wed Nov 26, 2008 9:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
k84
Shamans
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 604
Location: Transylvania, EU
|
| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Meadowbrooks wrote: |
| I seen two awesome dogs produce the opposite of what the breed thought. I seen a good dog breed to a crap dog and produce AWESOME.. Nature is nature and no matter what, Some dogs just don't click with each other. Most of the great breeding was trail and error. |
This Is What I'm Talking About! |
|
| |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
|
|
