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wilsonamstaffs
Puppy
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 17
Location: gilbertsville,pa
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 Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 10:08 pm Post subject: Has anybody sold a dog |
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| I am just getting a feel for if anybody has sold a dog out of the states? What are things you have to look for, I know there are alot of scammers out there! |
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Amanda Reichelt
Shamans
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 609
Location: Colville, WA (USA)
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| Posted: Wed Dec 03, 2008 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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There are a lot of scammers out there. I prefer to either visit the home in person or have a friend I trust go to the place to check it out. That is a requirement in my contract and if the person does not agree with that then they do not get a dog 
Talking over the phone does not tell you much of anything. You THINK you might be getting to know that person, but then again...you never know... |
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wilsonamstaffs
Puppy
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 17
Location: gilbertsville,pa
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 7:29 am Post subject: |
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Well it will not be so easy to go to their house if you live in a different country! LOL!!
I am talking like over seas, China, Tawai, Japan, Africa, things like that |
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Ph1ngering
Alpha Dog
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 907
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:23 am Post subject: |
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Bottom line i think it comes down to Trust. I can be hard to form that trust via email or phone calls but in the end you have to trust in people.
Its really not much different then send a dog from NY to Cali, chances of you check that home out are slim..
I know Larry has sent a dog or two overseas... Maybe he'll chime in with some wisdom.. |
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rose
Puppy
Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 8:33 am Post subject: |
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Well, I cant give you any info on selling, but i am an American living in Italy and just bought 2 dogs from an American Breeder. I thought I would add info from my perspective.
I know there are scammers as buyers, but believe me, there are scammers as sellers also. The first "breeder" I contacted in America was a scammer. I knew it because their price changed about 4 different times while talking with them and when I told them the final prce was too much, they dropped the price which made me feel like they were concerned about the money and probably didnt have the dog.
The next breeder I contacted, I did more research, I called them, and emailed them, sent pictures of me and my home and such and conversed with them for about 5 months before the dogs were shipped.
I think after that much time, both the seller and I were confident that neither of us were scammers.
So my advice or whatever you want to call it, is to have as much contact with the person as possible for as long as it takes you to be comfortable with the sell. A real buyer will wait for as long as needed for the right pup and wont demand that it be sent now or have a time line. They should know what the rules of import/export are for their country and the US are and should know that the process takes time, effort, and money and will not balk at reasonable prices or timeline. You will need to be aware of the requirements for import/export as well so you know you are not sending this breed where it will be subject to a too long quarentine or to a place where they are banned.
I would just say to research and communicate with the buyer as much as possible and if you dont feel comfortable, then dont follow through with the sale.
I can understand how difficult it is to ship to another country and want to protect yourself. But it is the most wonderful thing to find a breeder who is willing to ship and to work with you and understand your situation. |
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Sagebrush
Omega Dog
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| wilsonamstaffs wrote: |
Well it will not be so easy to go to their house if you live in a different country! LOL!!
I am talking like over seas, China, Tawai, Japan, Africa, things like that |
I would be especially careful to visit for myself if I sent to any of those countries.
I happened to visit Holland several years ago, and the homes of several breeders there; and then a few years later did send one dog to one breeder there -- one that I had visited.
What I learned for Holland that I think applies to many other countries as well:
1. They don't have as much living space as we do here. Everything is very tiny in Holland. Most don't have "yards" like we do (and they call them gardens).
2. You CANNOT allow a certain breeder's "prestige" and standing in the world to sway you. I visited one very well-known kennel there and was appalled. A gorgeous place WITH space, the show dogs lived in a windowless room stacked in crates. I had heard this before I visited, couldn't believe it, but finally did see it with my own eyes.
3. The living in crates thing is widespread because of the lack of space.
4. Getting to know the people and seeing them in their homes and learning their attitudes toward the dogs.
BREEDING IS THE NAME OF THE GAME IN MOST PLACES OVERSEAS! They don't buy "pets". Am Stafs are one of the if not the most popular show breed in many places of the world. Think about what's going to happen to the progeny of any dog you send.
I would be especially leery of sending dogs to the countries you mentioned, wilson. Countries' attitudes towards dogs, their relationship with them and their standing and care -- I think -- are too different there to risk sending a dog there with or without a visit. I have heard horror stories from a very reliable source of life for many imported dogs in Japan. They barely have enough room for their people! What I've heard is that Japan pays extremely high prices for the "prestige" of owning a big-winning dog -- and then it's kept in a crate to haul out and show-off to visitors. For ME anyway, and for many other reasons, I personally woud beware of sending dogs to those countries.
SO, I'm with Amanda. I would personally visit before I sent a dog overseas -- it's especially important because they are SO much more popular just about anywhere else other than USA! Sending a dog overseas is just not that important or necessary.
Just want to say, anymore I DO visit homes even here in USA before I sell a dog, or send someone I trust. It's bad enough in this country finding good homes, but I do think it's worse in many parts of the world outside USA.
Carla |
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rose
Puppy
Joined: 04 Dec 2008
Posts: 42
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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You bring up some very good points, Carla.
Many countries do not view dogs or dog ownership as Americans do. Here in Italy, the amount of strays is alarming abd heart breaking to say the least. People here, do not believe in spay/neuter for non-breeding animals, they do not believe in keeping their animals in a fence or home, they allow the animals free roam of the streets and we all know that is dangerous and adds to the stray population. They will also go on holiday in August, and leave their pets behind to either starve or to become a stray and roam the streets.
Also, the space issue is very correct. Italian homes are so small. We are very lucky to have gotten the house that we did, it is large by american standards and extreme by Italian standards. Our garden is also large by italian standards though small in comparison as to what I grew up with.
I live here and personally would be choosey in the people that get my dogs, due to the attitude here about pets. I work with an American rescue organization here and we do not adopt to Italians. We adopt to the local american population. We may not breed while we are here at all, becuase of the issues here, we may wait until we are back in the states.
And while I agree that it is hard to find good homes, I am glad that there are people willing to do it. For if not, we would not have our two wonderful girls with us. |
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Amanda Reichelt
Shamans
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 609
Location: Colville, WA (USA)
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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Oh, overseas ok.....
I have dogs in Belgium, Puerto Rico and Sweden.
The best way to get to know someone and to trust them with your dogs is to GO MEET THEM  Or have them come visit you. My boy would have never gone to stay in Sweden for over a year had I not met and just loved the person I was sending him to. My dogs mean the world to me, they don't just go to anyone. If I think I can't trust someone then they are most certainly not coming anywhere near one of my dogs  |
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Meadowbrooks
Alpha Dog
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 1680
Location: va
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 5:41 pm Post subject: |
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| You got to go with your gut. You need to know how to read people and talk to them alot and talk to others over seas.. I have owners over seas that I can get info off of if needed. It is trust. Is it going to work a 100% of the time? NO! but then it don't in states either. IMO |
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k84
Shamans
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 604
Location: Transylvania, EU
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 6:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Sagebrush wrote: |
I happened to visit Holland several years ago, and the homes of several breeders there; and then a few years later did send one dog to one breeder there -- one that I had visited.
What I learned for Holland that I think applies to many other countries as well:
1. They don't have as much living space as we do here. Everything is very tiny in Holland. Most don't have "yards" like we do (and they call them gardens).
2. You CANNOT allow a certain breeder's "prestige" and standing in the world to sway you. I visited one very well-known kennel there and was appalled. A gorgeous place WITH space, the show dogs lived in a windowless room stacked in crates. I had heard this before I visited, couldn't believe it, but finally did see it with my own eyes.
3. The living in crates thing is widespread because of the lack of space.
4. Getting to know the people and seeing them in their homes and learning their attitudes toward the dogs.
It's bad enough in this country finding good homes, but I do think it's worse in many parts of the world outside USA.
Carla |
Because you visited Holland a few years ago it doesn't mean that you have a correct view.
1."Everything is very tiny" because a lot of houses are over 400 years old but it doesn't mean that our dogs are less trained.
2. You can find "very well-known kennels" in the US too where the dogs live in bad conditions.
3. Attitudes toward the dogs are generally better then elsewhere, and in the EU and Switzerland are the most strict animal cruelty laws in the world.
An example from Switzerland: " many animals such as hamsters, lamas, alpacas and sheep no longer can be kept alone. They need to have visual contact with other specimens of the same species. Another example is that people who want to buy their first dog have to go to compulsory classes for “want to be dog owners” before they can legally buy a dog." |
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Sagebrush
Omega Dog
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Thu Dec 04, 2008 9:08 pm Post subject: |
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| k84 wrote: |
Because you visited Holland a few years ago it doesn't mean that you have a correct view. |
I didn't say it was CORRECT. Just relating what I observed. Others can DECIDE.
| k84 wrote: |
| 1."Everything is very tiny" because a lot of houses are over 400 years old but it doesn't mean that our dogs are less trained. |
Didn't say that either. The homes and people are lovely and very dog savvy in many instances. Again, I was just describing the living space in relation to what is average HERE. Others can DECIDE for themselves what that means to them.
| k84 wrote: |
| 2. You can find "very well-known kennels" in the US too where the dogs live in bad conditions. |
Absolutely. That's why I said, "It's bad enough in this country finding good homes,"
| k84 wrote: |
| 3. Attitudes toward the dogs are generally better then elsewhere, and in the EU and Switzerland are the most strict animal cruelty laws in the world. |
My comment was in response to the specific countries that wilson mentioned, China, Taiwan, Africa, Japan. I said, " would be especially leery of sending dogs to the countries you mentioned, wilson. Countries' attitudes towards dogs, their relationship with them and their standing and care -- I think -- are too different there to risk sending a dog there with or without a visit."
I'm of the opinion that great popularity is never good for any breed, especially one like this. The Staf is many, many, many times more popular in just FRANCE (about the size of Texas) than it is in all of USA.
That should be taken note of.
Carla |
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wilsonamstaffs
Puppy
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 17
Location: gilbertsville,pa
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: |
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THank you all!!
THis is not a crazy *beep* match! Please dont make it out to be!
If people have their opinions let it at that!
We all see things differently and thats that!
I thank you ALL for your comments to this, I am still very leary b/c i wont be able to really check on the dog except through pictures! |
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houseofancients
Puppy
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 27
Location: The Netherland
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 2:42 pm Post subject: |
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Carla, we are located in holland, and i must i was horrified by the picture you described.
Yes we are a small country, and most people don't have big houses or big yards (gardens), but what you described sound to me like a human society case.
[quote="Sagebrush"]
| k84 wrote: |
Because you visited Holland a few years ago it doesn't mean that you have a correct view. |
I didn't say it was CORRECT. Just relating what I observed. Others can DECIDE.
| k84 wrote: |
| 1."Everything is very tiny" because a lot of houses are over 400 years old but it doesn't mean that our dogs are less trained. |
i'm very very sure most people here will not tolerate dogs living in conditions you describe here.
Just talking about our own situation, our dogs live in our house, lay on our seats and everywhere we go, they go ( except our bedroom and toilet  )
I get the feeling that you may have had a raw deal in past with what you have seen, but i can surely say this is most uncommon.
being a US citizen living in holland i can honestly say that people over here in many many way are much more human towards animals than the av. American! |
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Sagebrush
Omega Dog
Joined: 11 Jan 2008
Posts: 157
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:36 pm Post subject: |
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| houseofancients wrote: |
i'm very very sure most people here will not tolerate dogs living in conditions you describe here. |
I am sure of that too. Remember, I was there.
| houseofancients wrote: |
| Just talking about our own situation, our dogs live in our house, lay on our seats and everywhere we go, they go ( except our bedroom and toilet ) |
I know! That's how it is with the one dog I have ever placed outside of USA -- it is in HOLLAND!
| houseofancients wrote: |
| I get the feeling that you may have had a raw deal in past with what you have seen, but i can surely say this is most uncommon. |
I have had some raw deals here in the STATES! Therefore, I don't place dogs unless I GO SEE for myself. I hold myself to the same standards for overseas homes.
Others may do it differently. I figure if someone can fool me HERE, they sure as heck can do it from overseas...
Things are not always as we hear them to be -- AND THAT GOES FOR HERE IN THE STATES! I am very sorry to hear of some kennels from Europe that are placing dogs here in the STATES in places at which they would be appalled if they actually visited.
Carla |
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houseofancients
Puppy
Joined: 02 Nov 2008
Posts: 27
Location: The Netherland
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| Posted: Sun Dec 07, 2008 3:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Sagebrush wrote: |
| houseofancients wrote: |
i'm very very sure most people here will not tolerate dogs living in conditions you describe here. |
I am sure of that too. Remember, I was there.
| houseofancients wrote: |
| Just talking about our own situation, our dogs live in our house, lay on our seats and everywhere we go, they go ( except our bedroom and toilet ) |
I know! That's how it is with the one dog I have ever placed outside of USA -- it is in HOLLAND!
| houseofancients wrote: |
| I get the feeling that you may have had a raw deal in past with what you have seen, but i can surely say this is most uncommon. |
I have had some raw deals here in the STATES! Therefore, I don't place dogs unless I GO SEE for myself. I hold myself to the same standards for overseas homes.
Others may do it differently. I figure if someone can fool me HERE, they sure as heck can do it from overseas...
Things are not always as we hear them to be -- AND THAT GOES FOR HERE IN THE STATES! I am very sorry to hear of some kennels from Europe that are placing dogs here in the STATES in places at which they would be appalled if they actually visited.
Carla |
sorry if i misinterpreted your post, but you are absolutely right.
do to others as you would to yourself.
I don't think i would ever let a dogs go somewhere if i wasn't absolutely sure it was going to a good home.
This would not mean i would allways have to visit though, a good trustable reference would also do the the trick, but again this would have too be from somebody i would trust 100% |
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