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Amstaff_Mom
Puppy
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 56
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 Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 4:54 pm Post subject: Qualities You Look For In Potential PP Dog |
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I would like to get involved in Personal Protection training with at least one of my Amstaffs. What are some qualities you look for in a good personal protection dog? I know obedience and drive is a big deal. But, besides that, how does a professional test a dog to see if they CAN do personal protection? I know a lot of dogs are not fit for it...
Thank you! |
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TitletownAST
Hunters
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 811
Location: Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Do you want to do Schutzhund or actual personal protection? Because I've read from people that do actual personal protection that they can be quite different and that a good ScH dog is not necessarily a good personal protection dog. |
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Amstaff_Mom
Puppy
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:19 pm Post subject: |
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| TitletownAST wrote: |
| Do you want to do Schutzhund or actual personal protection? Because I've read from people that do actual personal protection that they can be quite different and that a good ScH dog is not necessarily a good personal protection dog. |
Actual personal protection...like security type work. Thanks! |
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TitletownAST
Hunters
Joined: 24 Nov 2009
Posts: 811
Location: Iowa
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I doubt you'll find many Amstaffs in the breed that are suited for that work much less lucking out that one is aleady in your home. A few Amstaff people do ScH even fewer....(Harold Card might be the only one I've heard of) do French Ring. Your best bet is to find a VERY well respected and knowledgeable PP trainer in your area and have them personally evaluate your dogs or any puppy you might consider. I don't think the internet is going to be the best place to get "what should I look for" advice on this particular sport b/c so few in the breed will have any actual exprience with it and it is really nothing to play around with and requires a very special dog and serious training commitment. |
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Amstaff_Mom
Puppy
Joined: 02 Feb 2010
Posts: 56
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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| TitletownAST wrote: |
| I doubt you'll find many Amstaffs in the breed that are suited for that work much less lucking out that one is aleady in your home. A few Amstaff people do ScH even fewer....(Harold Card might be the only one I've heard of) do French Ring. Your best bet is to find a VERY well respected and knowledgeable PP trainer in your area and have them personally evaluate your dogs or any puppy you might consider. I don't think the internet is going to be the best place to get "what should I look for" advice on this particular sport b/c so few in the breed will have any actual exprience with it and it is really nothing to play around with and requires a very special dog and serious training commitment. |
I would never try training at home. I was just curious if there was anyone here who could list whatqualities they look for in a PP dog. Thank you for the replies:) |
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X-Pertise
Moderator
Joined: 08 Oct 2008
Posts: 541
Location: NY, USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 02, 2010 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| If all you want is your dog to protect you should the need arise, I have found it requires no training. Although ASTs are not normally human aggressive, when your life is in perile, your dog will know it. My dogs have always put themselves between me and the perceived danger. You will only see this when the occasion arises. At all other times, your dog will be perfectly well behaved. So, you will never no for sure until it happens. |
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bullylady
Omega Dog
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 218
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 2:40 am Post subject: |
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I do PP work, NOT Schutzhund and YES there is a difference.
All info is IMHO...I am a board member of Protection Dogs International. I have always done my PP work with my American Bulldogs. True PP work requires a "hard" dog and a highly experienced trainer. Anything less is dangerous. The younger years are really used to build drives and appropriate responses and make the experience fun! We want the dog to like to train or they will shut down - the work is intense. There are an awful lot of really good Sch dogs that will cur with PP work because they are equipment happy. There is a lot to consider overall. If you think that you have a good candidate, the best thing to do is to audit local clubs and see how they train and treat the dogs. You will immediately see the differences with the different disciplines. Sch clubs usually desire you to work to competition level. In our area, a very big Sch club has Diane Jessup and her APBTs, she wrote "The Real Working Pit Bull" I think it is called. She doesn't think that AmStaffs can do the work if I recall - don't quote me though.
Anyways, most clubs will want to meet you first and then your dog. Then they will evaluate how the dog reacts to different stimulus and situations and see if they think it has the appropriate attitude to withstand the work.
I thought one of my AmStaffs would do the work, but when I started him in prey work he went too far into overdrive - no self control and with a dog with a history of "hot" dogs behind it this can equate to dangers on the field to other competitors and other complications. He may have improved with age, but it caused him a superiority complex at home too LMAO!!
Your best bet is like the other poster said, to find a good local trainer and also make sure you find someone that does NOT breed discriminate - Sch is a GSD-dominated sport and some trainers think that GSDs and Mals are the only "real" dogs that should compete....
Yeah right - I won it all at PDI's 2009 Regional Trial- HIGH IN TRIAL, DECOY'S CHOICE AND PERSONAL PROTECTION DIVISION ONE - YEP, ALL OF THEM WITH MY AMERICAN BULLDOG! The year before I placed 3rd in at the K9PS Regional Trial with my other American Bulldog 
Best of luck!! |
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ckramer
Alpha Dog
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Posts: 2910
Location: Kennesaw, Ga USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| bullylady wrote: |
I do PP work, NOT Schutzhund and YES there is a difference.
All info is IMHO...I am a board member of Protection Dogs International. I have always done my PP work with my American Bulldogs. True PP work requires a "hard" dog and a highly experienced trainer. Anything less is dangerous. The younger years are really used to build drives and appropriate responses and make the experience fun! We want the dog to like to train or they will shut down - the work is intense. There are an awful lot of really good Sch dogs that will cur with PP work because they are equipment happy. There is a lot to consider overall. If you think that you have a good candidate, the best thing to do is to audit local clubs and see how they train and treat the dogs. You will immediately see the differences with the different disciplines. Sch clubs usually desire you to work to competition level. In our area, a very big Sch club has Diane Jessup and her APBTs, she wrote "The Real Working Pit Bull" I think it is called. She doesn't think that AmStaffs can do the work if I recall - don't quote me though.
Anyways, most clubs will want to meet you first and then your dog. Then they will evaluate how the dog reacts to different stimulus and situations and see if they think it has the appropriate attitude to withstand the work.
I thought one of my AmStaffs would do the work, but when I started him in prey work he went too far into overdrive - no self control and with a dog with a history of "hot" dogs behind it this can equate to dangers on the field to other competitors and other complications. He may have improved with age, but it caused him a superiority complex at home too LMAO!!
Your best bet is like the other poster said, to find a good local trainer and also make sure you find someone that does NOT breed discriminate - Sch is a GSD-dominated sport and some trainers think that GSDs and Mals are the only "real" dogs that should compete....
Yeah right - I won it all at PDI's 2009 Regional Trial- HIGH IN TRIAL, DECOY'S CHOICE AND PERSONAL PROTECTION DIVISION ONE - YEP, ALL OF THEM WITH MY AMERICAN BULLDOG! The year before I placed 3rd in at the K9PS Regional Trial with my other American Bulldog
Best of luck!! |
Do you have video of the work or trials? I would love to see it!  |
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bullylady
Omega Dog
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 218
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 9:15 am Post subject: |
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I don't know what ever happened with the video - there was someone taking video, I just never saw it. I'll have to ask.
My online photo album is here: http://s28.photobucket.com/albums/c234/rscriven/Expo2009/
It has pics of the various winners, my dog's shots and also lots of pics of my AmStaff Jet taking his TT test - the photographer was in LOVE with him, so just wade through those if you decide to take a look LOL
I DO have video of a seminar where she was kicking butt! I was 5 months prego, so I had to tie her out - not quite as much action as normal, but still the same idea. This was a training seminar with Ken Schilling, he runs Schilling Law Dogs.
https://www.bully-behavior.com/Working_Dogs.php
One of my favorite pics from the '09 Expo - she took the stick from the decoy LMAO
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DivinityAmstaffs
Scouts
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 476
Location: Maple Valley, WA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:52 pm Post subject: |
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| bullylady wrote: |
| my AmStaff Jet taking his TT test |
Where and when did you take the TT test? I looked all year and was hoping that K9 Kapers (I think they're called) in Shelton, where we went the year before, would have them again but I guess not.
Would love to do it this year with the ones who weren't old enough in '08. |
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ckramer
Alpha Dog
Joined: 16 Jan 2009
Posts: 2910
Location: Kennesaw, Ga USA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Those are some great pics! and *beep* big ole ribbons hahahaha  It looks like a lot of fun  |
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bullylady
Omega Dog
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 218
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| DivinityAmstaffs wrote: |
| bullylady wrote: |
| my AmStaff Jet taking his TT test |
Where and when did you take the TT test? I looked all year and was hoping that K9 Kapers (I think they're called) in Shelton, where we went the year before, would have them again but I guess not.
Would love to do it this year with the ones who weren't old enough in '08. |
I go to the NW Working Dogs trial each year in St. Helens, OR - it is only about 2 hrs +/- from where I live. This year it is being held on June 12/13th I believe - I will put up more info when the flyer is completed. There is CGC testing and an IABCA show as well. I e-mailed IABCA several weeks ago to find out what standard they use for our breed as I saw APBTs entered last year. They want to do a "specialty" and want me to help organize it and find a club to sponsor it, but I feel remiss to do so w/out knowing how our breed is being judged by them.
Yes, long answer to a short question - sorry. There will also be a TT test in July this year in WA. I just saw the flyer at the vet this a.m. I'll find out where and post that too. |
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bullylady
Omega Dog
Joined: 26 Jan 2010
Posts: 218
Location: Washington State
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| ckramer wrote: |
| Those are some great pics! and *beep* big ole ribbons hahahaha It looks like a lot of fun |
Yeah, those definitely beat those single ribbons in AKC huh! BUT, the entry fees to compete are like $65 I think, so geesh - I better get something good LOL!! |
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DivinityAmstaffs
Scouts
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 476
Location: Maple Valley, WA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| bullylady wrote: |
| I e-mailed IABCA several weeks ago to find out what standard they use for our breed |
We did it last year and got an Int'l Ch plus a Reserve Best in Show on Kovu plus a Jr Int'l Ch on his daughter Kovani. It was alot of fun BUT there wasn't much consistency. You get a written critique of your dog but one judge said wide and deep chest yet another said too narrow and shallow. Each had a different view regarding his head. So, it still comes down to a matter of opinion. But, it was fun and even though it lacked consistency, I loved reading what the judges were thinking since we don't get to know in AKC. |
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DivinityAmstaffs
Scouts
Joined: 19 Nov 2009
Posts: 476
Location: Maple Valley, WA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 09, 2010 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| bullylady wrote: |
| There will also be a TT test in July this year in WA. I just saw the flyer at the vet this a.m. I'll find out where and post that too. |
Found it! Yay!! Marking my calendar!!
July 31, 2010
Friends of Rescued Mastiffs (F.O.R.M.)
Contact: Terri Houck
P.O. Box 185
Graham, WA 98338
(253) 847-8967
Email: cthouck@comcast.net
Entry Fee (prior to closing date of 7/23/10): $30.00
Entry Fee (day of test, on site 7/31/10): $40.00
Test Location: Pierce County, Frontier Park, 21800 Meridian South, Graham, WA 98338
I better contact them asap since these types will usually only add other breeds if their own doesn't fill it up. |
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