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Skylar
Pack Members
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 343
Location: Everywhere
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 Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: GOOD NEWS FOR ME AND UK |
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Well i knew AST were allowed but over the year I have been hearing this and that. Because some of them kept telling me that AST is Pitbull and i kept telling them that Single reg AST are not Pitbull 
I chose to ignore it because there was nothing i can do as i have already got my dog and she is here to stay with me. And not one person from the government, vet, police/cop had said to me that they are illegal when i asked them (we're all moving to USA next year anyway) this week was a final straw because of what one cheesy member on other forum had wrote so I emailed the centre that specialize in importing and exporting animals and they know all the rules. this is what i got from them.
| Quote: |
From: *************** [mailto:********@googlemail.com]
Sent: 17 July 2008 12:49
To: Reading, AH (AH)
Subject: dog
Hi,
I have been reading and reading... I am not 100% sure if i understood this.. I have been viewing puppies on internet, the puppies is located in Europe and i was wondering if I could buy them and have them transport into UK? The puppies are AKC American Staffordshire Terrier.
From Defra it didn't say i couldn't bring them.. but the puppy i want to buy would be train as Obedience and novice title. And Good Citizen Dog Scheme.
I have read all the history and Know what to expect from them. But The defra is very confusing because it says "Character of the pit bull type behaviour" Which I am sure would not come to it. Does that means it is ok to buy them and have one transport into UK?
Kind regards
"me" |
And this is the response from them
| Quote: |
to********@googlemail.com
dateFri, Jul 18, 2008 at 8:31 AM
subjectRE: dog
hide details 8:31 AM (3 hours ago) Reply
The problem is that with a puppy coming in from anywhere in Europe, because of our quarantine laws the earliest age a puppy can come in is 10 months of age.
The puppies need to be 3 months of age before they can be microchipped and vaccinated against rabies. A month later they need a blood test to ensure the correct level of rabies antibodies and then you have to wait 6 months before they can come into the UK
So yes, the dog can come in , but would you want one that is already 10 months old?
Please phone me on ***** ****** if you wish to discuss in more detail |
Like i said... people are confused with what they are reading with DDA... (I hope) But of course i will continue to fight against DDA and BSL for other breed in UK and all breed around the world. |
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Ph1ngering
Alpha Dog
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 907
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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I think you might be assuming things though. I would ask a more specific question to them, like what dogs aren't allowed? How do they make the judgment whether its a dog thats banded?
If they go by just papers then you should be fine, if they go by looks then anyone with amstaff might not get through.. ect..
Its better to ask a lot more specific question and try to read between the lines.
Just my two cents.. Thanks for posting it and let us know if you find out more..
--Craig |
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Skylar
Pack Members
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 343
Location: Everywhere
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| Posted: Fri Jul 18, 2008 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Thanks Craig... First reply from u! Lol... Yeah this is just to confirm for me but I should have explained clear but the whole year i have been through everything and even asked them if they were allowed.. vet and police officers have said "Yes they are allowed as long as they are not Pitbull" that is enough for me but i did went on and read Defra and it did say if the dogs shows the behaviour then it is class as pitbull type.. meaning behaviour of fighting dogs or vicous dogs, scarry faces/body as sign of fighting dogs.
Of course you would need the paperwork to prove what breed the dog is or it would be guessing as pitbull because they don't look completely different to people that doesn't really know about them.
But i agree... I will ask more questions and find out more. there are only 4 breed that are ban which is from the Defra government law (DDA) against those breed.
| Quote: |
Section 1 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 prohibits four types of dog:
the Pit Bull Terrier
the Japanese tosa
the Dogo Argentino
the Fila Brasileiro
whether section 1 of the DDA applies to any particular cross will depend on whether the resulting dog is of the prohibited type - that is to say, whether it has the physical and behavioural characteristics of the prohibited type. Remember that the characteristics are essential in deciding whethr not the dog is prohibited. Not all Pit Bull Terriers will be described as a Pit Bull Terrier by their owner. Some owners may deliberately misrepresent the breed of their dog using terms such as American Staffordshire Terriers (Am Staffs or ASTs), American bulldogs and the Presa Canaria. Other names used to describe the Pit Bull Terrier types may be Irish Staffordshire Bull Terriers (not to be confused with a Staffordshire Bull Terrier bred in Ireland), Old Fashioned Staffords or Traditinal Staffords. There are likely to be other names being used by people breeding fighting dogs.
If a person arriving in this country produces paperwork that purports to prove that the dog is not a prohibited type it is necessary for the authorities to be cautious. Paperwork accompanying the dog should be detailed and comprehensive. Owners should be aware that if the dog displays the defining characteristics that are represented in the prohibited types the dog could be seized and its fate decided by the courts irrespective of the paperwork. It is therefore necessary to be very cautious when buying a dog that is not Kennel Club registered particularly if you are considering bringing a dog to this ntry from overseas.
If there is any doubt as to whether the dog in question could be considered to be of the prohibited type, the advice is NOT to bring it into this country. |
it says that if any dog that looked like them but are different breed.. we must make sure they don't show any sign of "behavioural problem" that is being painted by the media then the dog is ok. But if you have dog that doesn't like dogs completely or that could bite human then don't bring it into UK. That is why i always tell them not to lie about their dog's breed because other breed get the blame
But they did mention about ast may not be safe on arrival depending on their characters, it is complicating law. But i have spoken with the importing and exporting center, they the one that inspect the dogs and then the owners collect the animals from the center. That tells me that if AST are well behave and passed obedience, novice titles then they will be safe... Of course i would never bring any dogs into UK if they haven't done any of those and not talking to the center where the dog would be heading to first for inspection of health. If they said Yes knowing my name, dogs name and time of arrival and knowing the dogs is behaving good then i would bring it (that is if i didn't have AST already). But this is good to know for all AST that are already in UK. |
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Skylar
Pack Members
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 343
Location: Everywhere
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: |
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This is after few replied... I asked many questions (took your tips craig) and finally i asked one last question to clear everything up
| Quote: |
From: "ME" <googlemail>
Date: Fri, Jul 18, 2008 at 8:38 PM
To: "Reading (AH)"
Thanks for all the information.... But now i am little confuse... Is American staffordshire terrier allowed in UK?
Please let me know
Many thanks
"ME"
----------
From: Reading (AH)
*************
Date: Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 7:30 AM
To: "ME" <googlemail>
yes, the dogs below are the ones that you cannot being in
Section 1 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991 prohibits four types of dog:
the Pit Bull Terrier
the Japanese tosa
the Dogo Argentino
the Fila Brasileiro
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Sent: 18 July 2008 20:38 |
[/quote] |
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k84
Shamans
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 603
Location: Transylvania, EU
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| Posted: Mon Jul 21, 2008 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| they not banned American Pit. Terrier, they banned pitbull "type" dogs, all dogs that have physical characteristics of a "pit bull". DEFRA told me that I can bring my amstaff in UK but they don't guarantee that my dog don't will be confiscated. A volunteer told me if I bring my dog in the UK they are "looking for it" |
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Skylar
Pack Members
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 343
Location: Everywhere
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 4:20 am Post subject: |
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| k84 wrote: |
| they not banned American Pit. Terrier, they banned pitbull "type" dogs, all dogs that have physical characteristics of a "pit bull". DEFRA told me that I can bring my amstaff in UK but they don't guarantee that my dog don't will be confiscated. A volunteer told me if I bring my dog in the UK they are "looking for it" |
Yes they do ban american pit.
All dogs that behave bad or shown any aggression is ban.
I have already asked most of the people concerned DDA and they all told me the same. But like i said it is not worth bring dogs into UK not knowing what the outcome would be, but for dogs already in UK that are not pitbull is safe.
I should know because i am in UK.
Oh and when they say Pitbull type.. they meant dogs that were mix that do look like pitbull. Because people only create dogs to look like pitbull are mostly aggressive toward other dogs and is fighting dogs and breeding. Characters of pitbull type - characters meaning personality like fighting dogs aggression etc.
But don't bring your dog into UK because your dog does have cropped ear and is older or if you are just coming to UK for vacation then don't bring the dog here at all. That is my advice. |
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k84
Shamans
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 603
Location: Transylvania, EU
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| Thanks, I hope these are the facts. Maybe I'm going in the UK for my master degree (from EU in EU). But I'm thinking that's suspicious that in UK I don't find any Amstaff breeder (on the web)? |
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Ph1ngering
Alpha Dog
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 907
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 8:27 am Post subject: |
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| Sorry Skylar didn't see this post till now.... This great information.. |
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Skylar
Pack Members
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 343
Location: Everywhere
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:29 am Post subject: |
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you're welcome craig..
K... yes you're correct there is no breeders in Uk for AST (reputatable breeders) but there are backyard breeders for any of the breeds.. I don't use them because they are back yard breeders.
My dog's family came from ukraine. So they weren't bred in UK. Not many people know what American Staffordshire terrier is.. the most popular backyard breeders in UK is APBT or ISBT and SBT, I find out about AST when i met my dog's parent, Hope this helps. |
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k84
Shamans
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 603
Location: Transylvania, EU
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Skylar wrote: |
you're welcome craig..
K... yes you're correct there is no breeders in Uk for AST (reputatable breeders) but there are backyard breeders for any of the breeds.. I don't use them because they are back yard breeders.
My dog's family came from ukraine. So they weren't bred in UK. Not many people know what American Staffordshire terrier is.. the most popular backyard breeders in UK is APBT or ISBT and SBT, I find out about AST when i met my dog's parent, Hope this helps. |
Thanks, hope that this situation will become clearly and normal in the UK, however, presently I'm afraid to move in the UK with my dog. |
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k84
Shamans
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 603
Location: Transylvania, EU
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 11:40 am Post subject: |
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I recive this e-mail from UK a few months ago:
Hi there,
Further to Ryan's email the best advice I can give is do NOT attempt to bring your dog to the U. K. Unfortunately the law in this country is regardless of parentage and American Stafford's are likely to have the "substantial number of characteristics" of a pit bull type which could lead to a dog being seized. Below is a section of guidance given out to authorities regarding American Staffords which may be of help.
Whether section 1 of the DDA applies to any particular cross will depend on whether the resulting dog is of the prohibited type – that is to say, whether it has the physical and behavioural characteristics of the prohibited type. Remember that the characteristics are essential in deciding whether or not the dog is prohibited. Not all Pit Bull Terriers will be described as a Pit Bull Terrier by their owner. Some owners may deliberately misrepresent the breed of their dog using terms such as American Staffordshire Terriers (Am Staffs or ASTs), American Bulldogs and the Presa Canaria. Other names used to describe the Pit Bull Terrier types may be Irish Staffordshire Bull Terriers (not to be confused with a Staffordshire Bull Terrier bred in Ireland), Old Fashioned Staffords or Traditional Staffords. There are likely to be other names being used by people breeding fighting dogs.
If a person arriving in this country produces paperwork that purports to prove that the dog is not a prohibited type it is necessary for the authorities to be cautious. Paperwork accompanying the dog should be detailed and comprehensive. Owners should be aware that if the dog displays the defining characteristics that are represented in the prohibited types the dog could be seized and its fate decided by the courts irrespective of the paperwork. It is therefore necessary to be very cautious when buying a dog that is not Kennel Club registered particularly if you are considering
bringing a dog to this country from overseas. If there is any doubt as to whether the dog in question could be considered to be of the prohibited type, the advice is NOT to bring it into this country.
Sadly the Dangerous Dogs Act in this country is being rigoursly enforced and the stress involved for you and your dog would be horrific. Should you attempt to bring your dog over it could be seized. You could then find yourself liable for a prison term and a fine of up to £5000 and your dog may be destroyed. During the time of your dogs seizure he is likely to be held in secret kennels where you will not be allowed to visit. Cases under the Dangerous Dogs Act can take more than a year to complete. At 11 years of age I would look for a fantastic person to look after you dog in a safe country.
Any further questions please feel free to get in touch,
Regards,
Alison Green |
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Skylar
Pack Members
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 343
Location: Everywhere
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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like i said... characters..
This is going around in circle... Like i said.. my advice to you is not to bring your dog into UK.
But from what i was told, seen, read and heard that AST is allowed. that is all that matters to me.
There will always be dogs seize anywhere around in the world, not just UK but in USA as well if they fall into dog fighting category, human aggression. in criminal household..
Of course i wouldn't dream of breeding AST in UK yet until the law had change completely because right now it could fall into the wrong hand/owners who then would give AST bad name.
Thanks for your concern but i have better informations since i am in UK. Don't bring your adult dog into UK. I will continue to find more information including police department that are specialise in seizing dogs.. i will write letter, phone them and email them to see what they say and then i will post back into this post. I will be asking my local MP if that will make it better. Irish Staffordshire Bull terrier could be class as pitbull as well but they are here and is not ban. ITs been known that they have been siezed because they were fighting dogs and aggressive. Same goes for SBT.
Are you trying to put fear into me again for my dog? |
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k84
Shamans
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 603
Location: Transylvania, EU
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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"Are you trying to put fear into me again for my dog?"
NOOOOOOOOOOO!!!! I just want to know what's going on in UK. How I said, I want to make my master degree in UK and I'm collecting information about BSL there. Officials from UK told me what I wrote before, and the "volunteers" said that they will "looking" for my dog if I bring him with me.
Please, if you will find news from BSL in UK, show it to me. Thanks. |
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Skylar
Pack Members
Joined: 01 Jul 2008
Posts: 343
Location: Everywhere
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| Posted: Tue Jul 22, 2008 2:49 pm Post subject: |
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That's ok...
I understand where you're coming from.. i was in the same position... Not anymore.. After reading this.. I was thinking about doing something about it because I was free for the afternoon so i decided to go to the police station with questions.
And I have just come back from the police station today, this is what had been said between me and the officer at the station..
ME - "hi... I just want... ok this is not emergency or anything but i want to ask some question about something.. (he give me the go ahead nod) ok i am working on Forum about DDA and BSL, and would like to know more about it"
Officer - "what is that?"
ME - "oh it is dangerous dog act and breed specific legalisation"
Officer - "Oh ok (looking surprise)... do you have dog?"
ME- "Oh no, i was confuse about the law and want to clear it up so that i can write about it and i am against it"
Officer - "OK, what is it you're confuse about"
ME- "well, its not just about pitbull, but all dogs that are ban, who is in charge of the law?"
Officer - "Parliment... the government... you can write to MP about it"
ME- "Ok i have done that.. but what i am confuse about is why did they say 'pitbull type'?"
Officer - "Pitbull type is fighting dogs"
ME- "Oh so it is only meant fighting dogs.... and aggression?"
Officer - "yes and aggression..."
ME- "then why do police take all the dogs away that falls into pitbull type that are not pitbull?"
Officer - "There are some dogs that were mix that made it pitbull and police only take dogs away if they had done something"
ME- "Really but that's not what i have seen... i saw a dog that was taken away for no reason the other day, the dog was just standing there doing nothing?"
Officer "What dog was it?"
ME- "well... he did look like pitbull... but he wasn't doing anything... not even agression or scar face or anything like that? why?"
Officer "well it is because he is pitbull and pitbull is ban in UK and... (converse with his colleague asking question then back to me)... there are four types that are banned which are the Pit Bull Terrier, Fila Brasileiro, Japanese tosa, Dogo Argentino.."
ME - "yeah.. but what if they made mistake with the breed?"
Officer - "well, we have somebody to asset them, and if they are not agression then they will be registered, spayed and microchipped before going back to the owners"
ME- "don't you like pitbull?"
Officer - "Pitbull?"
ME- "yeah"
Officer - "not really"
ME- "what? (not sure what he had said) why?"
Officer - "not just pitbull... but i never likes dogs.... but i suppose they are alright... yeah they are alright"
ME- "OK.. one more thing... What about Irish staffordshire and american staffordshire and some SBT... Because sometime they do look like pitbull... what if the police made mistake?"
Officer - "I agree.. But they have specialise that will be assetting the dog"
ME- "yes but what if they make mistake? ok lets say, what can we do to prevent that from happening"
Officer - "Prevent from what? you mean prevent from seizer? (I nod) ok, kennel club, registers, if dog doesn't show any aggression.. they have to do something wrong for them to be seized"
ME- "you mean registered under kennel club? to prove that they are what they are? and not showing any aggression at all?"
Officer - "yes kennel club and microchipped and not showing any aggression"
ME - "Oh great... and aggression like what?"
officer - "aggression, dog fighting"
ME- "like pitbull type?"
Officer - "yes"
ME- "ok great... But don't you think the law is wrong? because not all pitbull are bad.. because any dogs can be dangerous even the small dogs ( i was interupted)"
Officer - "I agree... there are nice pitbulls.. it is mainly the owners fault... But dangerous dog act is for all dogs as well"
ME - "yeah true.. thats true... was it mostly youth?"
Officer - "what?"
ME - "Youth... like erm... teenagers owning the dogs.."
Officer - "yes that's majoring of the problem with the youth.. (mumbling)"
ME - "Yeah.. i have seen them sometime.. (nodding my head sideways).. so American Staff is allowed?"
Officer - "Yes they are allowed, they must be from kennel club and doesn't have pitbull type behaviour"
ME - "Ok great (with big grin)"
Officer - "you're welcome.. you can look it up more about it on the website (trying to hold back his grin)"
Officer went back to his female collague who was smiling more then he did.
This had made me want to continue to search for more so i know for fact.. but also try to find a way to stop them being list under DDA in the future so i am trying to united some of the people in UK to support this to banish the DDA so that no dogs are ban and that they change the law on ban breed and focus on "dangerous dogs" for any dogs that shows aggression or bitten anybody. |
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k84
Shamans
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 603
Location: Transylvania, EU
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