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Johnny H. Glades
Puppy
Joined: 27 Mar 2008
Posts: 12
Location: south Florida
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 Posted: Mon Aug 04, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: What age should you neuter your amstaff or pitbull? |
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| Hi all! Yesterday I adopted a pit bull pup, 6 months old from animal care, and control. He is not yet neutered, should I ask them if we could postpone neutering until he is full grown, in order that he may "bulk up" and get more muscular? |
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Amanda Reichelt
Shamans
Joined: 12 May 2008
Posts: 609
Location: Colville, WA (USA)
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 12:53 am Post subject: |
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| Neutering for sure will affect physical development if done before the dog is mature. Sex hormones affect the growth plates which close FAR more slowly in their absence. A young neutered dog will likely not ever deveolop the muscle of an entire dog. Neutering at 2-3 years old should have no affect on growth or muscle development so you won't see any problems with neutering at that age. |
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Meadowbrooks
Alpha Dog
Joined: 12 Dec 2007
Posts: 1680
Location: va
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| Neuter the dog now.. Don't wait.. I think longer you wait more it effects them mentally.. JMO |
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Ph1ngering
Alpha Dog
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 907
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 8:03 am Post subject: |
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I would have to disagree with Amanda.. I have yet to see a neutered dog not develop they way they should..
Our last boy Jack was neutered at 16 weeks and he was very blocky. While i will agree that it might have a small effect, i don't think its noticeable. IMO
On the other side neutering a dog at 2-3 years old is a lot harder on the dog, at 16 weeks they are up and playing the next day running around like they never new they had them.
I would love to see a group of puppies where one was neutered and one wasn't too see how they turn out.. But IMO they will turn our very similar.. |
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Lea
Puppy
Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
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Ph1ngering
Alpha Dog
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 907
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 10:26 am Post subject: |
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Both are good reads.. 1400 golden retrievers study wow.. They don't mention that Goldens are one of the most likely dogs to get cancer to begin with so its hard for me to believe that spayed or neutered dogs increased the chance of getting cancer..
Cancer is very unpredictable and in a breed where 1 out 10 gets it (don't know the real numbers). It could be just a flip of the coin, had they neutered the opposite dog they could have seen a decrease in cancer, ect..
I hate statistics..... Always a way to prove your point... |
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Lea
Puppy
Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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Cancer study wasnt done in Golden retrivers....
They do stats so that its not a flip of a coin. With flipping coins you wouldnt get statistical significance.....  |
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Ph1ngering
Alpha Dog
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 907
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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You are right, opps... 3,000 plus dogs, over looked that..
My problem with this ONE vets opinion is all he did was pull quotes from studies. With out knowing the exact studies its hard to really get anything out of his article, yes he puts them at the bottom but who's really got the time to track these things down..
Example: A study reported in Veterinary Medicine in August 1995 compared puppies sterilized at about eight weeks of age with littermates spayed or neutered at seven months and found that the younger puppies recovered more quickly from the surgery than the adolescents.
Now for the full quote: A study reported in Veterinary Medicine in August 1995 compared puppies sterilized at about eight weeks of age with littermates spayed or neutered at seven months and found that the younger puppies recovered more quickly from the surgery than the adolescents but by 18 months of age had slightly longer radii (front leg bones). However, since nearly half of the 142 puppies entered in the study at the Humane Society of Austin and Travis County in Austin, Texas, did not return for the 18-month evaluation, the data is not conclusive.
So I am sure I could put the same reading together with quotes from studies that proved my point as well. Also I can't grasp that if the dog was or wasn't neuter that it couldn't have developed the same health problems, can't really say it was due to being neuter 100%
I know 100% a dog can't get testicular cancer after being neutered! But the fact is only 1% of the whole dog population gets it to begin with..
This is Bob Barker reminding you to please Spay or Neuter your pet today! |
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Lea
Puppy
Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:06 pm Post subject: |
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| I actually did go back to the source articles for a lot of papers and data seemed very conclusive for large proportion of them. |
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Ph1ngering
Alpha Dog
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 907
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| Posted: Tue Aug 05, 2008 9:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Lea share your findings.. Are any of these studies online? |
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Lea
Puppy
Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
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Ph1ngering
Alpha Dog
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 907
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:57 am Post subject: |
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Thanks for sharing, never looked at these before interesting. I still have a hard time believing, because people with agenda's generally go out of there way to prove there side. Also abstracts don't equal source articles and data.
Lea I think we are getting off course though, the thread started by asking if the dog would still become a full grown muscular male, if it was neutered now. Why don't you weigh in on the subject at hand.. |
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Lea
Puppy
Joined: 26 Jul 2008
Posts: 94
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Why don't you weigh in on the subject at hand.. |
I thought I did. You were the one that started questioning the accuracy of data that suggest that dogs that are neutered early wont become full grown males. I am simply pointing out that you are not correct and that studies that you suggested have been done already..
No male that is desexed very early in life will look the same as intact male.
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| I still have a hard time believing, because people with agenda's generally go out of there way to prove there side. Also abstracts don't equal source articles and data. |
I would have to guess that you dont know much about how these studies are done or written then. Yes, abstracts do equal source articles as the authors of these articles have an abstract at the beginning of each article to sum up their findings. Then they go on to describe them in more detail in the actual article. So what you read in the abstract is written by those authors and it goes together with the actual article. If you choose to read the whole thing, you could always pay per article and have a look at details that interest you. |
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Ph1ngering
Alpha Dog
Joined: 27 Dec 2006
Posts: 907
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 2:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
I thought I did. You were the one that started questioning the accuracy of data that suggest that dogs that are neutered early wont become full grown males. I am simply pointing out that you are not correct and that studies that you suggested have been done already..
No male that is desexed very early in life will look the same as intact male. |
All I am saying is that I don't believe everything that is written or studied as truth.. Yes I generally question things vs just believing.. Specially when most articles in that Vets opinion are from late 80's early 90's. If i had the time I would go out an put together my own opinion based solely on the studies that confirm my opinion/Agenda as well.
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| I would have to guess that you dont know much about how these studies are done or written then. Yes, abstracts do equal source articles as the authors of these articles have an abstract at the beginning of each article to sum up their findings. Then they go on to describe them in more detail in the actual article. So what you read in the abstract is written by those authors and it goes together with the actual article. If you choose to read the whole thing, you could always pay per article and have a look at details that interest you. |
You would be 100% correct as I have said two other times I don't know much about these studies or how they are conducted. I know that you said you read the source article and data. I was looking for a link to that data and not to a summary thats it.. Please feel free to explain these studies and how they work..
My point again with these studies is what is their base line? Ok lets say the average pits front leg is 14 inches. Let say a litter of 8 all males were let to grow to maturity with out being neutered. My guess is some legs would be spot on 14 inches, some would be shorter and some would be longer.
Now lets say in the study they just happened to neuter the 3 males that would have turned out to be shorter had they been left to grow fully intact? The result would then be skewed wouldn't they? |
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k84
Shamans
Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 603
Location: Transylvania, EU
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| Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Anyway, I never want to neutering my dog. He's perfect with his *beep*. |
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