So I've heard lots of opinions on this from people all over boards since the test came out. Just wondering what the thoughts of people on here are. In any of the following potential breeding scenarios: 2 untested parents, clear x carrier, clear x unknown, carrier x carrier, whose responsibility is it to test the puppies.

Unless it's a combination that that could produce affecteds, I tell the puppy buyers ahead of time their pup has the potential to be a carrier, it is then their decision to buy the pup or not. Pet owners, it wouldn't matter either way.

I'm talking about a carrier-clear, or from a clear-unknown combination.

I don't think the breeder should pay for the ataxia testing on a litter of puppies unless the breeding "could have" produced affected puppies. In the event you do a breeding that you know will produce carriers (carrier X clear etc.) then you make sure the puppy buyer knows beforehand that any of the puppies in the litter could be carriers and that if that puppy was to be bred (i.e. not going to a pet home), that it needs to be ataxia tested by the owner prior to breeding to know the dog's ataxia status. If a breeder were to do a carrier X carrier breeding, then the breeder should ataxia test the whole litter themselves as there is a chance for affected puppies within that breeding (so in THIS case, I would certainly say this ataxia testing would not be the buyer's responsibility).

Well, I won't judge what anyone else does but I just did an "unknown" (parents are clear and carrier) to a clear. So, first, I need to get his blood drawn and sent in (already ordered the Optigen test). My plan won't matter if he's clear. IF he is a carrier, I plan to have all the pups tested to determine who are carriers and who are clears so that I can try to make sure that only the structurally correct, show quality, clear pups go to show breeding homes. This will mainly only matter if 2 pups are of equal quality so I'll pick the clear over the carrier. IF there's a pup that is by far above the rest but is a carrier, I would definitely still allow him/her to go to a show breeding home with very strict instructions and education.
This is just my plan and not a plan I expect anyone else to do. I know it will be ALOT out of pocket. So fingers crossed that he's a clear and that I don't have to worry about any of it!! (Now that I said all that, he's probably a carrier, huh?)

I'm with Renee, I just believe it is the breeder's responsibility. You can't guarantee what anyone else is going to do once they have the pup, it's better to do it yourself, plus like Renee said if I ever did a breeding where carriers would be produced I would want to know for my own selection what the status of each pup was b/c it would certainly play a role. There is no reason to throw carriers out of our breed but if we hope to reduce the prevalence of this disease in the gene pool at some point we've got to only allow the best of the carriers to remain in breeding homes. Right now there are still SO many carriers being used, and I know we all have different opinions of what is a good or great dog but I can't help be of the opinion that there are alot better clear dogs out there than some of the carriers being used, essentially we're making no headway into the decrease of the prevalence of this disease in our gene pool.

I have friends in other breeds with genetic testing and without a doubt in breeds like Dals and Dobes the expectation is the breeder's test the pups before being sold.

TitletownAST wrote:I'm with Renee, I just believe it is the breeder's responsibility. You can't guarantee what anyone else is going to do once they have the pup, it's better to do it yourself, plus like Renee said if I ever did a breeding where carriers would be produced I would want to know for my own selection what the status of each pup was b/c it would certainly play a role. There is no reason to throw carriers out of our breed but if we hope to reduce the prevalence of this disease in the gene pool at some point we've got to only allow the best of the carriers to remain in breeding homes. Right now there are still SO many carriers being used, and I know we all have different opinions of what is a good or great dog but I can't help be of the opinion that there are alot better clear dogs out there than some of the carriers being used, essentially we're making no headway into the decrease of the prevalence of this disease in our gene pool.

I have friends in other breeds with genetic testing and without a doubt in breeds like Dals and Dobes the expectation is the breeder's test the pups before being sold.

Can't say what someone else would or should do, but we would test the entire litter.
I would like to know what happens in my kennel and with our breeding, never mind if the pup is going to a pethome

According to the scenarios in the poll, I think both parents should be tested before doing the actual breeding. I also think that in case of one of the parents being a carrier and the other one clear or carrier etc. , it's the breeder's responsibility to do the tests for the puppies, not only because of letting know the buyer what it's to be expected, but because all in all you can't trust a carrier puppy with someone who'd later breed the dog with another carrier or something?! When you have the litter tested, I think your options to sell the puppies would change as in giving that certain carrier puppy to a responsible (breeder) person who would breed it properly.

By the way, is there a possibility to make such a contract and in which countries could this be done, that allow the breeder to make a contract with the buyer that forbids the buyer to breed with a carrier or affected dog?

Oh I agree with you, I think the ideal is to test both of the parents before the breeding. But alot of people are doing clear to unknown breedings. I think in some instances i've seen, the breeder tests their female who comes out clear but the male owned by someone else may not be tested but they go head with teh breeding b/c it won't produce affecteds.

I've heard that some country's kennel clubs may be pondering forbidding carrier breedings. I think that probably depends alot on the country and the club.

I don't see it as being something the American Kennel Club would ever do - i.e. require genetic tests with certain results be performed before a breeding, they'd have to require that of every genetic test that exists for every breed in order to do it. Our Amstaff Parent club has no ability to prohibit people from breeding.

The reason I don't think AKC would prohibit certain breedings - I was reading recently about albinism in Dobermans, the DPCA has a breeder code of ethics and asked AKC to invalidate the registration papers on albino dogs and people purposefully breeding albinos. The AKC refused. What AKC did do is establish the Doberman "Z List" to track which dogs are descended from Albinos or have produced it.

Quoting from the FCI regulations:

"This means that breeding may only be carried out with pedigree dogs which have a sound temperament, are healthy in functional and hereditary terms and are registered with a studbook or register (appendix) recognised by the FCI. In addition, they have to fulfil the requirements specified by the relevant FCI member or contract partners.

The only dogs which are considered to be healthy in hereditary terms are those transferring breed standard features, breed type and temperament typical of that breed without displaying any substantial hereditary defects which could impair the functional health of its descendants. The members and contract partners of the FCI are required in this regard to prevent any exaggeration of breed features in the standards which could result in impairment of the dogs' functional health."


Doesn't this actually mean that it's not allowed to breed carrier with carrier, or affected with carrier etc.? More than that, I think it also means that breeders must do the ataxia test before the breeding takes place, so that they prove there is no chance to have affected pups.

good answers guys!...nothing left to reiterate!

If the breeder is breeding and knows there is not going to be affected then it is the buyers job to test if THEY want to know if they have a clear or carrier. If it is a show home looking for a clear and the breeder is selling to show homes then I think it is more of the breeder problem to test to sell that pup. So I guess it is how you want to sell your pups.. If the breeder does a breeding knowing there are going to be affected then they need to test the pups because as a breeder, you don't want to place affected pups out there. JMO